I have come to the conclusion that The Gambling Commission along with the Maltese and Tasmanian regulatory bodies cannot be bothered to actually regulate properly companies like Betfair.
Why they choose not to do anything about them is beyond me but then this is the real world and their could be numerous unjustifiable reasons why they are not doing their jobs correctly.
Malta and Tasmania simply choose to not reply to concerned clients who contact them over Betfair's actions whilst The Gambling Commission state that they have "Limited Resources" for such activity.
All I can say is that all my correspondence with these organizations have been documented and collated ready to be utilized against these bodies at some time in the future when it will become apparent and public knowledge that Betfair have been acting unethically and in breach of these licensing rules.
Watch this space.
Wednesday, 24 September 2008
Thursday, 11 September 2008
Betfair Premium Charge
Anyone think there is something very wrong with Betfair introducing this Premium Charge whereby if you win significantly more often than you lose over a sustained period you will have to suffer a 20% deduction from your returns?
The reason I question this Premium Charge is once again based on ethics.
On the forum I see absolutely no mention of the main targeted group of clients (imho) ...namely the cheaters or those who abuse the fact that Betfair offer markets that are slow to be suspended before the off and slow to be transmitted when in running. Perhaps a more diplomatic way of putting it would be to say that there are clients on Betfair that regularly abuse the loopholes to be found on The Betfair Exchange reuslting in them rarely if ever having losing bets.
If I am correct then basically Betfair are saying that they condone these accounts that basically never lose at the expense of other clients who are more or less guaranteed to lose and for the privilege they are going to charge those winners 20% of their profits.
In other words rather than ban those clients who are regularly taking advantage of other clients Betfair are going to muscle in on their action and financially benefit from it and at a handsome rate too.
As those groups of clients invariably never lose long term then they are hardly going to shut up shop and go away and they will simply just have to settle for 20% less in profits but Betfair are going to financially gain from these unscrupulous clients.
Food for thought don't you think?
Lets look at a recent real example of what I mean.
I think it was the 6th or 7th of August at Sligo or some other meeting in Ireland.
There was a horse that was 4/6 with the bookies but which on The Betfair SP went off around 8/1+.
What a coincidence then that this horse got left at the start of the race and had no chance of winning ?
Did Betfair void the market? No I'm afraid they did not even though this could be viewed as a example of them suspending the market after the off or having a late off.
Any client who regularly exploits these consistent late suspensions of the off for markets is likely to be a long term winner with very few if any losers.
This type of customer therefore would rarely if ever lose and rather than void such bets placed after the off (or even worse after the result of an event is known) Betfair repeatedly let them stand.
Under these circustances then I would assert that Betfair should ban these cheaters but they seem to want to join in on the act and benefit by charging them 20% for the benefit of stealing from other clients.
The simpler fairer and ethical solution however would be for Betfair to ensure that all their markets are fair and have accurate suspension or off times including in running markets but it appears to me that Betfair would sooner profit from holes and problems in their system via the clients that are abusing such things rather than resolving them.
And on a more basic point.
Essentially in real terms what it means is that if you bet in more than 250 markets and have made a profit over a 60 week period you will have to pay 20% of your profits to Betfair if you win 2.5 times your commission rate as profit of turnover.
Assuming you are on a base rate of commission of 2% and they assume the other side of your losing bets is the same then you can have a POT (profit on turnover) of 5% and be on the cusp of paying this new Premium Charge.
If you pay 3% Commission Rate then POT can be 7.5% and for 4% Commission Rate you can have a POT of 10% to have your effective commission represent 20% of your gross profits.
POT is calculated by saying if you have 100000 in bets and win 10000 then you have had winnings of 55000 and losses of 45ooo yielding 10000 (55k-44k) on a turnover of 100k so your POT would be 10%.
This is a rule of thumb assuming both sides pay the same commission rate when calculating your effective commission rate which is ALWAYS less than your actual commission rate paid on winnings.
Hence you can see that this is basically going to affect those that have high POT's which means those that have an unfair advantage or the cheats or those abusing weaknesses in Betfairs practices.
And a couple of footnotes........
It is extremely unlikely that many cleints can ever achieve greater than 10% POT and more typically the very best professional successful gamblers around achieve POT's a good deal lower than this at around 5 or 6%
If you happen to pay this Premium Charge over a period of time will you get it refunded to you at the same rate if you should have a losing session at a later date?
The reason I question this Premium Charge is once again based on ethics.
On the forum I see absolutely no mention of the main targeted group of clients (imho) ...namely the cheaters or those who abuse the fact that Betfair offer markets that are slow to be suspended before the off and slow to be transmitted when in running. Perhaps a more diplomatic way of putting it would be to say that there are clients on Betfair that regularly abuse the loopholes to be found on The Betfair Exchange reuslting in them rarely if ever having losing bets.
If I am correct then basically Betfair are saying that they condone these accounts that basically never lose at the expense of other clients who are more or less guaranteed to lose and for the privilege they are going to charge those winners 20% of their profits.
In other words rather than ban those clients who are regularly taking advantage of other clients Betfair are going to muscle in on their action and financially benefit from it and at a handsome rate too.
As those groups of clients invariably never lose long term then they are hardly going to shut up shop and go away and they will simply just have to settle for 20% less in profits but Betfair are going to financially gain from these unscrupulous clients.
Food for thought don't you think?
Lets look at a recent real example of what I mean.
I think it was the 6th or 7th of August at Sligo or some other meeting in Ireland.
There was a horse that was 4/6 with the bookies but which on The Betfair SP went off around 8/1+.
What a coincidence then that this horse got left at the start of the race and had no chance of winning ?
Did Betfair void the market? No I'm afraid they did not even though this could be viewed as a example of them suspending the market after the off or having a late off.
Any client who regularly exploits these consistent late suspensions of the off for markets is likely to be a long term winner with very few if any losers.
This type of customer therefore would rarely if ever lose and rather than void such bets placed after the off (or even worse after the result of an event is known) Betfair repeatedly let them stand.
Under these circustances then I would assert that Betfair should ban these cheaters but they seem to want to join in on the act and benefit by charging them 20% for the benefit of stealing from other clients.
The simpler fairer and ethical solution however would be for Betfair to ensure that all their markets are fair and have accurate suspension or off times including in running markets but it appears to me that Betfair would sooner profit from holes and problems in their system via the clients that are abusing such things rather than resolving them.
And on a more basic point.
Essentially in real terms what it means is that if you bet in more than 250 markets and have made a profit over a 60 week period you will have to pay 20% of your profits to Betfair if you win 2.5 times your commission rate as profit of turnover.
Assuming you are on a base rate of commission of 2% and they assume the other side of your losing bets is the same then you can have a POT (profit on turnover) of 5% and be on the cusp of paying this new Premium Charge.
If you pay 3% Commission Rate then POT can be 7.5% and for 4% Commission Rate you can have a POT of 10% to have your effective commission represent 20% of your gross profits.
POT is calculated by saying if you have 100000 in bets and win 10000 then you have had winnings of 55000 and losses of 45ooo yielding 10000 (55k-44k) on a turnover of 100k so your POT would be 10%.
This is a rule of thumb assuming both sides pay the same commission rate when calculating your effective commission rate which is ALWAYS less than your actual commission rate paid on winnings.
Hence you can see that this is basically going to affect those that have high POT's which means those that have an unfair advantage or the cheats or those abusing weaknesses in Betfairs practices.
And a couple of footnotes........
It is extremely unlikely that many cleints can ever achieve greater than 10% POT and more typically the very best professional successful gamblers around achieve POT's a good deal lower than this at around 5 or 6%
If you happen to pay this Premium Charge over a period of time will you get it refunded to you at the same rate if you should have a losing session at a later date?
Thursday, 22 May 2008
Gambling Commission - In Running Betting Consultation Paper
This is a link to The GC's website consultation paper on In Running Betting
It runs from May 2008 until 6th August 2008
It is important if you want to have an input or have evidence of malpractice etc etc for you to contribute to this discussion.
Far be it from me to pre empt the final findings but I would bet heavily that In Running Betting as we know it will change dramatically or even cease completely once this consultation has ended.
Re-Imbursement of Nov 2006 Bet
In the mail today a letter dated 20 May and a cheque for £38 arrived.
It seems Betfair have decided to reimburse me for my bet placed in November 2006 ($25 = approx £13) along with the £25 legal fees for starting the small claims court proceedings.
They do maintian, however, that I have no viable case but have decided to pay me anyway in order to settle this matter quickly.
I placed a bet on a non runner but someone else with the same name played in an event and Betfair claim I was on that losing selection.
I have to strongly disagree though about whether or not I had a viable case because their view is that when you place a bet it is the punters (your) responsibility to know who you are betting on even though they do not distinguish between different selections with identical names.
Without giving the exact situation and details I bet on a player from the USA to win a poker tournament whose name was quoted on Betfair.
However another player from the UK with an identical name played and lost.
Lets say they were both called John Smith.
John Smith appeared in the list not John Smith (USA) or John Smith (UK).
In addition at the time John Smith (USA) was a known player whilst John Smith (UK) was a complete unknown.
If Betfair are correct in their assertions then there are going to be major problems if all they ever do is put a name in an event when more than one person of the same name may take part unless they distinguish between the different players/selections in some way.
To make matters worse I know of at least one other player who was quoted and settled as a loser in that same market who did not participate who has a relatively easily identifiable name and could not have been confused with anyone else with the same name as nobody else with that name took part.
Anyway this trivial little bet has now been settled so now I am free to concentrate on more important matters like preventing them from offering unfair markets and getting the in running markets drastically changed.
It seems Betfair have decided to reimburse me for my bet placed in November 2006 ($25 = approx £13) along with the £25 legal fees for starting the small claims court proceedings.
They do maintian, however, that I have no viable case but have decided to pay me anyway in order to settle this matter quickly.
I placed a bet on a non runner but someone else with the same name played in an event and Betfair claim I was on that losing selection.
I have to strongly disagree though about whether or not I had a viable case because their view is that when you place a bet it is the punters (your) responsibility to know who you are betting on even though they do not distinguish between different selections with identical names.
Without giving the exact situation and details I bet on a player from the USA to win a poker tournament whose name was quoted on Betfair.
However another player from the UK with an identical name played and lost.
Lets say they were both called John Smith.
John Smith appeared in the list not John Smith (USA) or John Smith (UK).
In addition at the time John Smith (USA) was a known player whilst John Smith (UK) was a complete unknown.
If Betfair are correct in their assertions then there are going to be major problems if all they ever do is put a name in an event when more than one person of the same name may take part unless they distinguish between the different players/selections in some way.
To make matters worse I know of at least one other player who was quoted and settled as a loser in that same market who did not participate who has a relatively easily identifiable name and could not have been confused with anyone else with the same name as nobody else with that name took part.
Anyway this trivial little bet has now been settled so now I am free to concentrate on more important matters like preventing them from offering unfair markets and getting the in running markets drastically changed.
Wednesday, 21 May 2008
Banned from Betfair/Gambling Commission In Running Consultation Paper
Well not surprising really.
Betfair have decided to ban me permanently from all their sites so I guess it must be because of the legal action I have started against them.
The only thing that pisses me off about it though is that I cannot gain access to my long term positions and/or close them unless I call them up on the telephone. Unfortunately the nature of the markets in which I have long term positions means that they are discriminating against me and I definitely don't trust them to act on telephone instructions impartially. They have questionable integrity and as such would much prefer to close positions myself via the Internet than through their employees.
Guess I am just going to have to wait to collect the remaining few thousand I have left on deposit and the other $8k or so tied up in liabilities and long term markets. (Can't remember how much exactly as I have no access to the account).
Then again this banning could be because of all the shit they are going to get following on from the current consultation paper being carried out by The Gambling Commission into In Running markets.
If the outcome of that consultation doesn't lead to Betfair having to withdraw In Running markets or in the least get them dramatically and radically changed then I will eat my hat as they say. The outcome could also open the floodgates for litigation concerning bets placed after the outcome of an event is/was known as surely their suspension times will also be examined more closely to check that they took place as or before event outcomes were known.
I guess I am going to have to be a little vague about specific things on here over the coming weeks and months because I certainly intend to provide the Gambling Commission with evidence of Betfairs dodgy practices not to mention continue legal action against them concerning some of my bets that I have had with them in the past.
Betfair have decided to ban me permanently from all their sites so I guess it must be because of the legal action I have started against them.
The only thing that pisses me off about it though is that I cannot gain access to my long term positions and/or close them unless I call them up on the telephone. Unfortunately the nature of the markets in which I have long term positions means that they are discriminating against me and I definitely don't trust them to act on telephone instructions impartially. They have questionable integrity and as such would much prefer to close positions myself via the Internet than through their employees.
Guess I am just going to have to wait to collect the remaining few thousand I have left on deposit and the other $8k or so tied up in liabilities and long term markets. (Can't remember how much exactly as I have no access to the account).
Then again this banning could be because of all the shit they are going to get following on from the current consultation paper being carried out by The Gambling Commission into In Running markets.
If the outcome of that consultation doesn't lead to Betfair having to withdraw In Running markets or in the least get them dramatically and radically changed then I will eat my hat as they say. The outcome could also open the floodgates for litigation concerning bets placed after the outcome of an event is/was known as surely their suspension times will also be examined more closely to check that they took place as or before event outcomes were known.
I guess I am going to have to be a little vague about specific things on here over the coming weeks and months because I certainly intend to provide the Gambling Commission with evidence of Betfairs dodgy practices not to mention continue legal action against them concerning some of my bets that I have had with them in the past.
Wednesday, 30 April 2008
Clarification of Betfair SP Grand National Manipulation Service Announcements
Well thats a relief and now adds some clarity to comments elsewhere.
Fortunately I have found copies of The Betfair Service Announcements that Betfair made at the time concerning their Grand National Betfair SP manipulation.
The first one was on 5 April at 18.35 with the second one two days later on 7 April at 12-0.5
The Betfair Service announcements are enclosed below and clearly show that the original plan was to discriminate against some clients which after a great deal of complaint and pressure forced them to backtrack.
Service Announcement 1:
Betfair Customer Services
05 Apr 18:35
The reconciliation of the Betfair SP for the Grand National win market resulted in prices which we believe were significantly unfair for backers of some horses, most obviously the winner. Therefore we unreconciled the Betfair SP to return what we believe were fair prices.As a result of unreconciling bets after the race, some matched bets (which would have been winning bets for customers) became unmatched bets. In addition, some customers may have traded in-play based on bets they believed had been matched. If you believe that you have been disadvantaged as a result of this, please contact us at bets@betfair.com. We will look at our records to determine the amount you should be due and provide compensation accordingly. Please be aware that this may take some time and it is unlikely that we will be able to address all enquiries until next week.
Service Announcement 2:
Betfair Customer Services
07 Apr 12:05
Following our decision to roll-back the initial Betfair SP reconciliation for the Grand National win market, some customers were left in a worse position than had that initial SP stood. We are in the process of assessing which customers were disadvantaged by the roll-back and by how much. All affected customers will receive payments from Betfair to reflect this. In other words, if a customer would have been in a better position had the initial SP reconciliation stood, then a payment will be made by Betfair to the customer to reflect this, irrespective of whether the customer has contacted Betfair. No customer will be left in a worse position following the roll-back than would otherwise have been the case.Thank you to those customers who have already emailed the bets@betfair.com address with details of circumstances in which they believe they have been disadvantaged. This has helped us to confirm that our calculations match the expectations of those customers and we will look to respond individually to relevant customers. The decision to roll-back the initial SP reconciliation was taken following extremely high level of demand from Betfair SP backers in the Grand National win market. Had the initial SP stood, the prices returned on several horses for those backers would have been much reduced from what they could reasonably have expected. As a result, Betfair made the decision to roll-back after the race, to reflect an SP overround as close as possible to 100%, which is typical of the Betfair SP in the normal course. We believe that this was an exceptional case and don't anticipate a reoccurrence, but obviously the result of the roll-back was that some other customers were left in a worse position than had the initial SP reconciliation stood. We will begin to make account credits today and expect all payments to be made to affected customers within the next 48 hours.
Monday, 28 April 2008
Update To Betfair Silence - This Could Be Legal War
Hardly surprising really but Betfair have refused to give any answers to any of my questions that raise serious concerns about their own practices where they are in direct competition with their own customers.
Anyway over the past ten days or so I have tried to get them to answer a query I have concerning a bet I placed with them in November 2006.
To the best of my knowledge they settled the bet as a loser rather than as a non runner so in effect stole my $25 bet or gave it to someone else.
At the time I sent them several e-mails none of which got any kind of response so today I sent them a final warning to reply or face legal action. I have actually sent them e-mails concerning this mis settled bet for the past ten days or so which have also not gained any kind of reply).
If my memory serves me correctly then they have denied me $25 which equates to blatant theft as they have not replied confirming that they did or did not settle the bet as a loser or refund my stake.
Hence they have a further 48 hours to respond or face legal action including costs over this $25 bet.
Then I am going to take them to task over every losing in running bet that I have ever had.
This got me thinking though that maybe the way forward and the way to teach them a lesson would be for every single customer who has ever lost any money in the In Running markets to start legal action against them through the small claims court.
You can do this by filling in the appropriate forms at you local County Court and it costs very little to do so but you will get those court costs back anyway when you win your case. For amounts above £15000 you can also go to the High Court and you can even issue/start your claim online at:
www.moneyclaim.gov.uk
The basis for taking them to court to reclaim your losses would be that they when you had the in running bet the market available to you was not a fair one and as such Betfair enabled you to play in an unfair market where the odds were stacked against you as other clients had a significant and unfair advantage over you.
You could also argue that you may well have had bets that were certain losers at the time you placed the bets as Betfair may or may not have suspended markets after the event result was known.
Anyway I digress and the important point for me to make here is that in the small claims court each side represents themselves and are liable for their own costs so if either you or Betfair want to send a Barrister along then you are going to have to pay for it yourself.
Now what I would like to see is thousands of us take Betfair to court via this process as I feel confident each and every one of us will win our case.
In fact I reckon Betfair can't afford for any of these cases to actually get to court as if any did they would have to disclose information that they would probably prefer to keep secret. Hence they are going to settle by paying everyone who takes this action against them the full amount claimed so in effect all losing In Running Market bets are going to be refunded.
But lets assume they do go to court.
How are they going to feel when they are asked about how and when they suspend in running markets?
In fact it will be a golden opportunity to ask them infinite questions that are all relevant to whether or not you are playing in a fair market such as all the questions raised elsewhere about whether they themselves or any rival clients have preferential status.
And to think all this could have been avoided if they just dd the decent thing and answered a few questions that I and many others have about their operations and practices.
Well their continued silence is going to cost them dearly and I am going to lead a concerted effort to make them a more open and transparent company and prevent them from implementing any further prejudicial to client practices and force them to stop current unfair ones too.
They need to be kept in check and I am going to make sure that they behave themselves.
If they want to declare war against me then so be it but its not something I have wanted or welcome but at the same time I refuse to let them just brush me aside and fob me off with their silence
Anyway over the past ten days or so I have tried to get them to answer a query I have concerning a bet I placed with them in November 2006.
To the best of my knowledge they settled the bet as a loser rather than as a non runner so in effect stole my $25 bet or gave it to someone else.
At the time I sent them several e-mails none of which got any kind of response so today I sent them a final warning to reply or face legal action. I have actually sent them e-mails concerning this mis settled bet for the past ten days or so which have also not gained any kind of reply).
If my memory serves me correctly then they have denied me $25 which equates to blatant theft as they have not replied confirming that they did or did not settle the bet as a loser or refund my stake.
Hence they have a further 48 hours to respond or face legal action including costs over this $25 bet.
Then I am going to take them to task over every losing in running bet that I have ever had.
This got me thinking though that maybe the way forward and the way to teach them a lesson would be for every single customer who has ever lost any money in the In Running markets to start legal action against them through the small claims court.
You can do this by filling in the appropriate forms at you local County Court and it costs very little to do so but you will get those court costs back anyway when you win your case. For amounts above £15000 you can also go to the High Court and you can even issue/start your claim online at:
www.moneyclaim.gov.uk
The basis for taking them to court to reclaim your losses would be that they when you had the in running bet the market available to you was not a fair one and as such Betfair enabled you to play in an unfair market where the odds were stacked against you as other clients had a significant and unfair advantage over you.
You could also argue that you may well have had bets that were certain losers at the time you placed the bets as Betfair may or may not have suspended markets after the event result was known.
Anyway I digress and the important point for me to make here is that in the small claims court each side represents themselves and are liable for their own costs so if either you or Betfair want to send a Barrister along then you are going to have to pay for it yourself.
Now what I would like to see is thousands of us take Betfair to court via this process as I feel confident each and every one of us will win our case.
In fact I reckon Betfair can't afford for any of these cases to actually get to court as if any did they would have to disclose information that they would probably prefer to keep secret. Hence they are going to settle by paying everyone who takes this action against them the full amount claimed so in effect all losing In Running Market bets are going to be refunded.
But lets assume they do go to court.
How are they going to feel when they are asked about how and when they suspend in running markets?
In fact it will be a golden opportunity to ask them infinite questions that are all relevant to whether or not you are playing in a fair market such as all the questions raised elsewhere about whether they themselves or any rival clients have preferential status.
And to think all this could have been avoided if they just dd the decent thing and answered a few questions that I and many others have about their operations and practices.
Well their continued silence is going to cost them dearly and I am going to lead a concerted effort to make them a more open and transparent company and prevent them from implementing any further prejudicial to client practices and force them to stop current unfair ones too.
They need to be kept in check and I am going to make sure that they behave themselves.
If they want to declare war against me then so be it but its not something I have wanted or welcome but at the same time I refuse to let them just brush me aside and fob me off with their silence
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